NSS Weekly: Harvey’s Law Proposes Using Cameras to Make Daycares Safer

Transcript

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INTRO: You are listening to North Star Stories: Voices from Where We Live, a newscast about what it means to live in Minnesota, produced by AMPERS, with support from the McKnight Foundation and the State of Minnesota.

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HOST: This is North Star Stories: Voices from Where We Live. I'm Gracie J.

This week, a Minnesota mom describes the moment her life changed forever—after dropping off a baby she trusted would be safe.

KATHERYN MUCKLEBUS: I got the call no mother should ever get.

HOST: Hear the family's story and how it's motivating them to ensure other parents don't face a similar tragedy. And then later. Minnesota's hospitals are warning our healthcare system is struggling to survive. And now a new group is asking a bigger question: What would it look like to repair healthcare, not just patch it?

But first, here are some of the events that made headlines this week.

Democrats and Republicans teamed up in an unlikely alliance of senators, arguing cities shouldn't be able to keep secret development plans from the public they serve. Democrat Erin Maye Quade and Republican Steve Draskowski want to stop city and county governments from entering non-disclosure agreements, or NDA's, with private businesses that want to do business with the government.

ERIN MAYBE QUADE: We have NDA's that have been signed by cities that have done real harm, not just to people, but to the trust people have in government.

HOST: Senator Quade says the bill would prohibit cities and other local governments from signing NDA's that limit public disclosure and transparency. The lawmaker points to Saint Louis County in Northern Minnesota, where she says twenty-two government staffers and at least four elected officials signed NDA's to hide the fact that Google was the company trying build a data center in Hermantown. Opponents say the measure could make it harder for cities to compete for major projects and argue it singles out data centers.

ANDREW MATTHEWS: There's some clear favoritism against one industry, and against one section of government, being our municipalities and the economic development that they need.

HOST: The bill moved to the senate judiciary committee.

While in a growing number of Minnesota communities, including Mankato, North Mankato and Waite Park, near Saint Cloud, leaders are considering pausing new data center until they know more about their environmental impact. Waite Park officials say they want to study the potential impacts on energy use, water demand and local infrastructure.

SHAUNNA JOHNSON: We just want to try to make sure we're thinking everything through. And it's better to do that and be proactive than to have to be reactive about it.

HOST: Leaders in the South Metro city of Eagan recently became the first city to pass an ordinance restricting new data centers. No company can build a data center in Eagan in the next year.

Meanwhile, at the State Capitol, lawmakers like Jim Nash, Co-Chair of the State Government Finance Committee, say the current make-up of the House of Representatives is making it quite challenging to pass legislation.

JIM NASH: I myself have served in the majority the minority, and I have dubbed this the tie-ority, and this has been more difficult than the others.

HOST: Representative Nash is referring to the fact that the house has 67 Democrats and 67 Republicans. Representative Torkelson introduced a bill that would add one more House seat but it would also cut the Senate by 22. Supporters say changing legislative maps and representation is a way to reduce stalemates but even backers acknowledge it's unlikely to pass. Senators are not going to vote to eliminate their seats. And that ultimately it would likely require a constitutional amendment.

Former Minnesota State Trooper Shane Roper will stand trial in Rochester but the start date has been pushed back. A judge denied Roper's request for a change of venue. The former trooper is charged in the 2024 crash that killed an 18-year-old in Owatonna. Prosecutors say he was speeding, accelerating to more than 80 miles per hour in a 40, and did not have his emergency lights or siren on when he crashed his squad car into the victim's car.

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HOST: This week at the Minnesota Capitol, parents and child care advocates urged lawmakers to pass Harvey's Law, a bill that would require security cameras in infant and toddler rooms at any childcare center that receives state funding. The law would require the facilities to keep the videos for 28 days. As North Star Stories reporter Jose Ozoria explains, what may seem like a simple step to protect our youngest citizens also raises privacy and other safety concerns.

KATHERYN MUCKLEBUS: I hate really reliving this day. I hate picturing Harvey's lifeless body on a table while emergency services work to tirelessly help him. I hate remembering that I was ushered into a room and told you don't want to see this. I hate knowing that less than three hours prior to that, I dropped my baby off with someone who I thought could be trusted.

JOSE OZORIA: That's Katheryn Mucklebus, the mother of Harvey Mucklebus. Katheryn, along with her husband Hunter, testified in support of a bill named after their son. Police say a daycare worker has confessed to killing Harvey at a licensed childcare facility in the southern metro area.

KATHERYN MUCKLEBUS: I received a phone call from daycare that no parent should ever receive. Our perfectly healthy, beautiful son, Harvey, was not breathing. I raced to the daycare while feverishly calling Hunter, who was working on the other side of the country at the time.

HUNTER MUCKLEBUS: Harvey's death was completely preventable. There were not one, but two warning signs before our son was taken from us. Cameras would have would have revealed the truth and stopped all of it.

JOSE OZORIA: State Representative Nolan West, who represents a district in the northern metro area, agrees.

REP NOLAN WEST: It's the role of government to provide for the security and safety of its people, and nowhere is that more important than when you're talking about infants and toddlers.

JOSE OZORIA: Representative Nolan West says the time has come for increased oversight.

REP NOLAN WEST: And what we've seen in Minnesota, unfortunately, is cases of maltreatment in childcare have been increasing over the last few years.

JOSE OZORIA: So representative West is sponsoring Harvey's Law.

REP NOLAN WEST: This bill expands on an existing area of law to require cameras in childcare centers that receive state funding and retain their footage for 28 days.

JOSE OZORIA: According to Harvey's Law, the cameras would be installed in the infant and toddler rooms at childcare centers that receive state funding, something Representative West says the state demands of other businesses.

REP NOLAN WEST: We even require cannabis businesses to have every square foot of their facility monitored by cameras with footage retained for 90 days, but we have nothing even remotely close when it comes to keeping our kids safe. The goal of the bill is to increase transparency, ensure accountability and prevent child abuse in daycare settings.

JOSE OZORIA: Katheryn says that accountability would have saved her son. The suspect accused of killing Harvey is also accused of attempting to kill another child at the same daycare center. But those attempts went undetected.

KATHERYN MUCKLEBUS: Miraculously, that baby survived and was able to go home. Because no cameras had been installed in the facility, there was no footage of these numerous incidents, including what led up to EMS being called. The footage would have answered all the questions we had. Staff would have known the terror of what was actually happening inside that room.

HUNTER MUCKLEBUS: If cameras had been installed, the first attempted murder would have been documented, the truth would have been revealed, and our son would still be here today. Instead, we lost our sunshine. Instead, we soothe our three-year-old to sleep every night as he cries, asking for his best friend to come home.

JOSE OZORIA: Hunter says others can benefit from his son's death.

HUNTER MUCKLEBUS: I want to acknowledge something clearly. Cameras cannot physically stop someone from harming a child in that exact moment. But cameras create the ability to see and analyze what happened. Something that may otherwise go unnoticed or unexplained. They create accountability, they provide evidence. They allow for immediate action to protect children. They also protect the people who work so hard to keep children safe.

JOSE OZORIA: Other families provided testimony before the committee, describing the abuse children in various daycare centers experienced, and to voice their support for the bill. But those opposing the bill point to concerns about how much it would cost to put cameras in every daycare, and that cost would be passed along to parents. There is also privacy and safety concerns with the cameras and the storage of the footage, which could get hacked.

DR INDIRA DUTTA: We can also have the security rules or security regulations where we say that you have to use this kind of encryption, you have to use this kind of authentication, you have to use this kind of access control, or, you know, a third party audit who will come and check periodically if all the patches are up to date. And according to the regulations.

JOSE OZORIA: Dr Indira Dutta is an assistant professor of cybersecurity at St Cloud State University. Dr Dutta says some strict language and considerations should be implemented in a bill like this.

DR INDIRA DUTTA: Privacy Rules needs to be specifically mentioned. It should not be just a recommended thing. Should not be just a best practice thing. It should be like a regulation. You have to follow this, right?

JOSE OZORIA: Harvey's parents say the benefits outweigh the privacy and cost concerns.

KATHERYN MUCKLEBUS: We must protect the smallest of Minnesotans. When you vote on this bill, please remember that behind it is a little boy who should be here today, laughing, learning to run and growing up with his big brother. Please help us make sure that Harvey's story saves other children.

JOSE OZORIA: Hunter Mucklebus.

HUNTER MUCKLEBUS: Harvey cannot be brought back, but his story can protect other children.

JOSE OZORIA: The bill is currently working its way through committee. If made law, Harvey's Law would be the nation's first law requiring security cameras in infant and toddler rooms at state funded childcare centers. For North Star Stories, I'm Jose Ozoria.

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HOST: The story of Harvey's Law includes the big promises supporters see transparency and accountability, but it also raises a real concern. If you're recording children, you have to protect that footage. Lawmakers heard testimony that security rules should be written into law, encryption, access controls, audits and a clear plan if there's a breach. So next, we're joined by Jonathan Wrolstad. He's a cybersecurity expert and faculty member in the College of Science and Engineering's Technological Leadership Institute at the University of Minnesota. He's here to talk about the pros and cons of any security cameras, whether they be in a daycare center or your home. So glad to have you here, Jonathan, thank you for coming to North Star Stories.

JONATHAN WROLSTAD: Thank you so much for having me.

HOST: First, let me ask you, if Minnesota requires cameras in infant and toddler rooms, what are the non-negotiable security requirements you'd put in the law?

JONATHAN WROLSTAD: There are currently a lot of rules in place regarding the privacy of children's information, and I don't think that we're going to need any new laws or regulations regarding protecting their privacy. So you know, critics worry about hackers, whether they are hacking into the live stream or the archived video. How much of a concern should that be for parents? I think anytime you put anything on a computer that is going to be at risk, you can take basic measures to protect yourself. They can store it locally in their building and not put it on the cloud. That would be one way of protecting it. They can also make sure that they use a reputable service where they have services that are secure and protected. A lot of the problem comes from when small businesses have to set up computer systems on their own and they're not given guidance, and they oftentimes don't have experts on staff who can configure these things correctly. So you can end up with cheap cameras that are set up poorly with a default password or with the old software that hasn't been updated. And I think for a lot of small businesses that can be very tempting to save money and to cut corners. And so even more so than adding new rules, it might be helpful to consider giving money to put the correct measures in place, because you can buy better systems, and those will come with better default controls.

HOST: You know, Jonathan, we live in a day and age where cameras are everywhere, including our homes. You know, webcams on laptops and phones. What does a listener of ours need to do to make sure they aren't being watched without their knowledge?

JONATHAN WROLSTAD: That's a great question, and I think the only thing you can really do to make sure that you're not listened to is to not have those devices around you, which I know is almost impossible for people now. So when you do have to have them around, again, I would say, buy reputable brands and then make sure that you set them up correctly. Change the default passwords. Put software updates on there and disable that Internet access or that cloud access when possible. Because if you can store things in your home, that's always going to be a better situation than uploading them to the internet.

HOST: Jonathan, I'm curious, you listened to the audio story with us, and you said it was heavy because it is. It's a very heavy topic. It's a tragic story. With your expertise in security, specifically cybersecurity, and with Harvey's Law wanting to be passed, what are some things that you just want to share with our listeners in general that I haven't asked yet.

JONATHAN WROLSTAD: I think that security can get in the way of doing a lot of things, and really it's my job as a security professional to help people get those hurdles out of their way and allow them to be successful whatever they're trying to do. And so I really would just encourage people in all areas to consider the security implications of what they're doing and reach out to professionals who can help make sure that you're doing things the right way. A lot of times, it's not that hard to do things in a more secure manner, but you just have to know what to do, and people who are experts can help out in that area.

HOST: Well, thank you so much for coming on to North Star Stories and sharing your expertise with us. That's all the time we have. Thank you, Jonathan.

JONATHAN WROLSTAD: Okay, thank you.

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After the break, we explore ways to reimagine healthcare. This is North Star Stories, voices from where we live, produced by AMPERS with support from the McKnight Foundation and the State of Minnesota. We'll be right back.

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[NSS Promo: "North Star Stories is produced by AMPERS, Diverse Radio for Minnesota's Communities. Check out our other programs at AMPERS dot ORG: Minnesota Native News brings you weekly coverage of the state's Native American communities. MN90 - Minnesota History in 90 Seconds - transports you to historical moments in our state through short, engaging stories. Native Lights: Where Indigenous Voices Shine is a weekly podcast featuring conversations between Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe members and siblings, Leah Lemm and Cole Premo, and Native community members. Hear more at AMPERS dot ORG."]

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HOST: You are listening to North Star Stories. I'm Gracie. J. We now turn our attention to healthcare news from around the state.

Allina Health is one of the largest healthcare providers in Minnesota, serving communities across nearly every region of the state. Now it's becoming one of the largest in the nation. The Minneapolis-based nonprofit operates about a dozen hospitals and more than 90 clinics, caring for roughly one million patients each year. From major facilities like Abbott Northwestern in Minneapolis to smaller regional clinics, Allina provides everything from primary care to specialized heart and cancer treatment. Allina announced it's joining California-based Sutter Health in a major deal that could bring two billion dollars in new investment to Minnesota and western Wisconsin, while keeping its name and headquarters in the Twin Cities.

Meanwhile, Hennepin County Medical Center, also known as HCMC, the state's largest level one trauma center, says it needs to find $50 million in savings this quarter to offset lost revenue. The shortfall is primarily due to uncompensated care related to federal cuts. Lawmakers agree that HCMC needs more than a quick fix.

REP GREG DAVIS: It's my goal not to have a situation where we're putting band-aids on. So you can limp along for a couple more years.

HOST: Hennepin County leaders are now pushing a plan to use part of the Target Field ballpark sales tax revenue to stabilize the healthcare system long-term, saying the tax should be used for more than just stadium projects. They urged lawmakers to move fast as the hospital tries to close the March budget gap.

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HOST: People working in the state healthcare system say too many communities don't feel the urgency until there's a crisis, like the one Hennepin County Medical Center is facing. North Star Stories Producer Ngoc Bui takes us to a two-day gathering in St. Paul where experts challenged themselves to reimagine and rebuild a sustainable healthcare system for our state.

[NAT SOUND: "Three words, everyone deserves care, but how we get there and what that actually means is a lot more complicated."]

NGOC BUI: On a cold Saturday in March, a group has gathered at the Playwrights' Center in St Paul for day two of an event called "From Constellations to Convergence: Expanding a Health and Healing Agenda." Even with the threat of a massive snow storm on the way, they all chose to attend. It was the second convening by the Health Care reparations cooperative after the first one held last fall.

[NAT SOUND: "So essentially distilled from October, the agenda in its most bare form was that everyone deserves care."]
NGOC BUI: That's Hadija H. Kadogo, who is the founding director of the cooperative. Kadogo says their work is shaped by three main strategies. The first is abolition of the healthcare system.

HADIJA H KADOGO: Not just, you know, addressing things as they arise, but really being able to create something entirely different, entirely new, with an entire different value set across the state of Minnesota in terms of what healthcare means and can be.

NGOC BUI: The second is resource redistribution. That includes a resource fund and a project to define what health-focused reparations could look like in Hennepin County. In other words, figuring out what it would mean to rectify the harms people have experienced from the healthcare system. The last strategy is community-driven research. These strategies converge toward a mission to not only dream up but to build a different system of care. However, Kadogo says there's a crisis of imagination.

HADIJA H KADOGO: When we think about folks being able to even say that like healthcare can be different. Care can be different. For a lot of folks, that's a huge barrier in terms of being able to dream into something.

NGOC BUI: Kadogo says they also face a lack of urgency when it comes to thinking about transforming healthcare.

HADIJA H KADOGO: HCMC, as an example, is about to shut down. Or because of occupation, we're seeing an 85% no-show rate for prenatal appointments. Or, you know, assistance is being cut across the state because of punitive measures. You know, all of these things make folks say like, oh my gosh. Now it's a crisis. Now it's an emergency, When we're saying, like, no, actually it's a crisis because it's a carceral system. It's a crisis because it's an oppressive system.

NGOC BUI: With all this mind, the participants were asked to come up with concrete ways to change how healthcare is provided in Minnesota for the final activity of the event.

[NAT SOUND: All right, ready, set, go. ]

NGOC BUI: Each person wrote their ideas onto sticky notes and added them to ten different poster boards, each containing a pathway for change—from narratives to policy and resource flows.
[NAT SOUND: ...Communities, cross sector, meetings and coalition building in the game changing space there is making land available for food forests and permaculture.]

NGOC BUI: The participants spent the rest of the time sorting out which ideas were already happening, which could be implemented soon, and which would require more time. Aarti Bhatt, a doctor from Minneapolis, says this was the most memorable part of the gathering.

AARTI BHATT: There's so much that's already been started and that actually made me feel really hopeful.

NGOC BUI: Bhatt says the next step is bringing all of these efforts together.

AARTI BHATT: All these neighborhood networks and the mutual aid hubs and the healing justice work, you know, like the pop up clinics and the like, how to connect all this to deepen the roots of care and interconnect the work so that it is more scaled up and more accessible to more people.

NGOC BUI: Through more than 10 years as a doctor, Bhatt says she's seen how things have gotten more difficult for her and her patients with rising costs of living and growing food insecurity.

AARTI BHATT: I find that this, there's just an increasing need for this type of, like, dreaming and imagining and really cultivating spaces where we can, like, build systems of care that are sort of rooted in, like, reciprocity and healing and not just sort of survival.

NGOC BUI: After two full days, the second convening wrapped, but founding director Kadogo says there's still much more to be done.

HADIJA H KADOGO: What's next is really continuing to build power across the state, to really think through what does transformation mean across Minnesota.

NGOC BUI: This is Ngoc Bui North Star stories.

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HOST: We've been hearing big ideas about healthcare reparations, the push to repair harms and build a system that actually works for people who have been left out or left behind. But what does that look like on the ground for a family trying to get a baby to a wellness check, or a patient putting off care because they can't afford it, or someone who doesn't know they can ask for an interpreter? Joining us now is Rodolfo Gutierrez, Executive Director of HACER, an advocacy-driven, Latino-specific organization focused on research, evaluation and community action. He's also the co-chair of the Health Equity Committee with the Minnesota Public Health Association. He works with patients and families on access to care, coverage and navigating services, including the kinds of care systems like Hennepin County Medical Center provide. Thanks for being with us, Rodolfo.

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: Nice to be with you.

HOST: First, what are you seeing right now inside the Minnesota hospital and healthcare system,

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: There is some big kind of concern in so many ways, in different directions within the hospitals and clinical services. The lack of equipment that it is not arriving because of funding issues is also a big concern. In particular, the lack of attendance or participation from community members, even though they have options such as telemedicine and things like that, people are not really showing up to their appointments.

HOST: What would repair mean in practical terms?

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: We used to think about repairing something that it was working. And this particular situation is like preparing, is trying to improve the services that were offered to the people. Because to certain point, so many people didn't know they do have access the way they were offered by the organizations and clinics and hospitals. But also many, many people prefer to go to different kind of services provided by other organizations because they didn't feel like welcomed to the hospitals and clinics. So repairing is more like trying to understand cultural differences. And cultural needs from different communities.

HOST: What are the biggest barriers you see right now for most patients?

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: I want to say that there are several barriers that are coming from the past. One of them is language. So many times, is lack of information in cultural terms that people can really feel appropriate or sense appropriate. So we've been doing some studies with people asking them, why don't you go to the hospital whenever you need it? And they say, I didn't know I can go to the hospital. Because they are telling me only that the service is there, but they are not telling me how can I request the service? So they are feeling that, culturally speaking, they are not being explicit in terms of what, what can I do if I knock your door for me to receive the service?

HOST: So then for listeners, what are the top three practical steps that they can take today to get connected to care?

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: If you talk about the people, they need to identify themselves with someone inside the service. The providers need to hire people that are like their clients or their patients. Secondly, the service providers need to have someone who really speaks the language is promoted the other people who are intended targeted to be invited to come. And finally, I guess it's important that the information is posted everywhere. So information is key.

HOST: Well, thank you so much, Rodolfo. That's all the time we have, but still, we greatly appreciate you being on North Star Stories today.

RODOLFO GUTIERREZ: I really appreciate the invitation. Thanks so much.

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HOST: And before we go, a win for Minnesota in the Shark Tank.

SHARK TANK AUDIO: Sharks, no more bulky machines, painful surgeries or silly gadgets. Now who's ready to ride this REM cycle of momentum and wake up the world to a whole new way of sleeping?

HOST: A Twin Cities-based startup just put Minnesota innovation in the national spotlight. Burnsville-based REMplenish landed on ABC's Shark Tank, the show where entrepreneurs ask wealthy investors to back their companies. A former Medtronic engineer and University of Minnesota student-innovator pitched REMplenish a water bottle designed to help reduce snoring. He struck a deal on-camera for $400,000. Ultimately, the deal fell through after due diligence but, still, the national spotlight is a huge win for Minnesota innovation.

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HOST: This is it for today's program. If you missed any part of today's newscast, you can find this and past episodes at AMPERS.org, or listen to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. You can also get North Star Stories Daily on our website or check your favorite station's schedule. Thanks for listening, and we'll be back next week with more stories and voices from the North Star State.

OUTRO: North Star Stories is produced by AMPERS, diverse radio for Minnesota's communities, with support from the McKnight Foundation and the State of Minnesota. Online at AMPERS.org.